Aging Unfiltered: Confronting Ageism in the Workplace - with Dr. Brian Kaskie, Marla Fronczak, and Jeri Colucy

In this episode of Aging Unfiltered, we explore what it really means to create an age-friendly workplace. Marla Fronczak, CEO of AgeGuide, Jeri Colucy, Director of Operations, Finance & Human Resources, and Dr. Brian Kaskie, Professor at the University of Iowa, come together to share personal stories, research insights, and practical strategies to build inclusive work environments that support people at every stage of life.

From Marla’s own journey of career transition in midlife to Jeri’s human resources experience, this conversation dives deep into how employers can lead with empathy, flexibility, and foresight. Dr. Kaskie shares key findings from his research, including how the AARP Employer Pledge and simple job redesigns can boost recruitment and retention, especially as older adults continue working longer out of passion or necessity.

Plus, don’t miss this episode’s special “Medicaid Moment” featuring Lore Baker, a valued member of AgeGuide’s Advisory Council and CEO of A.I.D., as she breaks down the latest Medicaid changes and what it means for older adults in our region.

Whether you’re an HR professional, a job seeker over 50, or someone rethinking your workplace culture, this episode challenges assumptions and offers tools for real change.

Resources:

AARP Employer Pledge Program

Take Action Today – AgeGuide

Efforts to Address the Aging Academic Workforce: Assessing Progress Through a Three-Stage Model of Institutional Change

AID ⋆ Association for Individual Development ⋆ Empowering Individuals...

Facebook: facebook.com/AgeGuide
Twitter: twitter.com/AgeGuide
Instagram: instagram.com/theageguidepodcast
Podcast: ageguide.org/the-age-guide-podcast
Website: ageguide.org

Transcript

00;00;07;21 - 00;00;35;22
Gretchen Knowlton
Welcome to The Age Guide podcast series Aging Unfiltered, where we explore bold conversations about ageism and growing older in today's world. I'm your host, Gretchen Knowlton. Age guide is an area agency on aging, helping our community to age well at home. And today, we're diving into a topic that hits close to home for so many ageism in the workforce.

00;00;35;24 - 00;01;08;23
Gretchen Knowlton
Whether it's being overlooked for a promotion passed over in hiring or quietly nudges towards retirement age bias shows up in ways that are often subtle but deeply felt. And our workforce continues to age. So it's time that we start treating experience like an asset, which it really is, to help us set the stage for this important conversation. I have two age guide leaders here with us.

00;01;08;26 - 00;01;35;19
Gretchen Knowlton
Marla Fronczak our CEO and someone who who's really led the charge in leading by example to help build an age friendly workplace. And Jeri Colucy, who is our HR director, and we're also joined by Doctor Brian Caskey, joining us from the University of Iowa, where he's been studying age friendly workplace practices. Thank you all for being here today.

00;01;35;22 - 00;01;36;28
Marla Fronczak
Glad to be here.

00;01;37;00 - 00;01;39;00
Jeri Colucy
Yes, it's nice to be here.

00;01;39;02 - 00;02;10;24
Gretchen Knowlton
I want to kick the conversation off by asking you, Marla, a couple of questions to sort of set the stage for us as the CEO at Age Guide. You've really led a change in the organization to start making our organization and really our whole region, a model for age inclusive practices. What has made this issue of ageism in the workplace such a personal priority for you? And how have you worked to set an example in the region?

00;02;10;25 - 00;02;46;28
Marla Fronczak
Yeah, I think that's a really good question. Gretchen. And I was thinking about that, and I change careers in my mid 40s. Okay. I decided I really wanted to work with the aging population. I wanted to I was loving working with, helping my parents transition, and I couldn't get hired. So at 45, when I was trying to get a position in marketing and other things in the aging sector, I had gone back for gerontology and I was being overlooked for positions that I knew I was clearly qualified for.

00;02;47;01 - 00;03;07;01
Marla Fronczak
So I was not discouraged. And I took a position that was probably a lesser position that I would have done work my way up through the aging network and was able to for many reasons. People open doors for me and it really, really stuck with me. And I thought, you know what? I had a lot of talent to offer.

00;03;07;03 - 00;03;31;04
Marla Fronczak
I was being overlooked for many biases that I didn't think were fair in the workplace, and I didn't want other people to experience that because I knew that we had a lot to offer. Now, the second fold was as an Area Agency on Aging, I truly believe that we should lead by example, that we have an aging population that has a lot to give.

00;03;31;06 - 00;03;58;21
Marla Fronczak
There's a lot of longevity, and I truly believe that people want to work if they are able to, and if they desire to, and to have those opportunities that we shouldn't be closing doors on people simply because they reached a certain age. So I wanted us to be on the forefront of that. I wanted to make sure that other people understood that this is our changing society, and that we should be embracing that longevity in that lifespan.

00;03;58;23 - 00;04;01;22
Marla Fronczak
So that's why it's really important to me for us to be there.

00;04;01;27 - 00;04;13;00
Gretchen Knowlton
That makes a lot of sense. It starts with that personal experience. And then you can take that spark and start to lead a whole area agency and a region.

00;04;13;02 - 00;04;17;24
Marla Fronczak
And a movement. I truly believe that's excellent.

00;04;17;26 - 00;04;27;25
Gretchen Knowlton
So before we dig deeper into what this all means and what we can do about it, I'd love to know what you hope that listeners will take away from this conversation.

00;04;27;27 - 00;05;01;28
Marla Fronczak
I want listeners to really understand one. Don't be discouraged. Okay, so if there are opportunities out there, make yourself heard and make yourself seen. To employers, I would like them to embrace the opportunities that our aging society is offering us, and to make sure that they're offering opportunities that are flexible enough for people. Because again, as we go through different stages of life and you're going to hear that, I think from Jeri and both, Brian, that there are ways that we can engage that talent pool that's there.

00;05;02;01 - 00;05;09;29
Marla Fronczak
And I want people to truly understand what a gift it is to have this workforce now.

00;05;10;01 - 00;05;41;18
Gretchen Knowlton
Okay, so we have our marching orders. That's what we're going to talk about. I, I'm going to turn to Jeri and Brian now. Welcome again. So glad you're both here. Jeri, let's start with you. Because as an HR director, you're really on the front lines, at our Area Agency on Aging, and you've been, kind of trying to actively build new policies and practices in this area of supporting different stages of life and creating an age friendly workplace.

00;05;41;23 - 00;05;48;16
Gretchen Knowlton
So can you put this, start by putting this into perspective for us. Why is this issue relevant right now?

00;05;48;19 - 00;06;04;25
Jeri Colucy
Well, I think, I think it was actually Brian who lit the fire under me when he spoke to us a few years ago is that he basically, brought to the forefront of what is an age friendly workforce and why do we need to have it now?

00;06;04;27 - 00;06;34;08
Jeri Colucy
Because it's not that far in the future that we are going to have more older adults than we have younger people. I think that one of the things that just immediately was, you know, I'm always on the proactive approach to things is like, well, how are we going to handle that if we can't if we don't have graduates, if we don't have employees available to us, what are we going to do to actually fill those roles?

00;06;34;13 - 00;07;03;21
Jeri Colucy
So I began like kind of strategically planning in my head as well. What does what, you know, what does an H.R., department actually do to face that and just exploring different things. And one of the things that I started to do was to ask questions. So can this role be filled by more than one person? Is this role, ideal for a more seasoned worker or a college, you know, graduate?

00;07;03;23 - 00;07;26;06
Jeri Colucy
Is this role something that we should think about? That maybe we need to have some flex hours with? Because maybe they have some caregiving, needs, whether that is in the stage of life that they're in. Or maybe they, actually the age that they are is maybe they do not want to work eight hours a day,

00;07;26;08 - 00;07;31;20
Gretchen Knowlton
or maybe that fits with your needs as well if you need some evening and weekend work. So we work together,

00;07;31;20 - 00;07;52;23
Jeri Colucy
right? It can really do, do things. And then I started when we would receive a request to actually, hire someone without a lot of our managers knowing I would play with the job descriptions and I would come up with maybe part time roles and I would throw them out on. Indeed, at the same time, I'd put the full time roles

00;07;52;24 - 00;07;55;24
Gretchen Knowlton
see what you got in terms of bites, yeah.

00;07;55;27 - 00;08;02;05
Jeri Colucy
And so it was just kind of a, you know, trial and error and to and then experimented within my own team.

00;08;02;12 - 00;08;12;23
Gretchen Knowlton
Oh okay. Kind of sneaky sometimes to make big changes you've got to start quietly. And then the people get comfortable with it and you can share work.

00;08;12;24 - 00;08;15;11
Jeri Colucy
And this really wasn't something that we had faced before.

00;08;15;13 - 00;08;15;23
Gretchen Knowlton
Yeah.

00;08;15;23 - 00;08;19;17
Jeri Colucy
I mean, it's brand new. I mean, really,

00;08;19;17 - 00;08;30;00
Gretchen Knowlton
actually since the pandemic with the labor shortages. Yeah. So, Brian, do you have in your head some statistics about what we're seeing with the aging population right now that you could share with us?

00;08;30;04 - 00;08;54;16
Brian Kaskie
Well, the one big statistic is there's going to be more, more, a lot more and lots more. And it's not just more, but it's the longevity. So folks are living longer and healthier lives. And that puts them in a position of those folks. There are a lot of folks who want to continue working. They find it enjoyable, but a lot of folks have to continue working, and they just haven't saved enough for retirement.

00;08;54;16 - 00;09;21;22
Brian Kaskie
So as employers, we have a responsibility to think about that. And you two are great examples here because in in our research, we worked with hundreds of employers to try to get them to think about their aging workforce, to get them to kind of make an inventory of like, hey, I didn't even know I had 40% of my workers are over 55, let alone these are the things I might do to keep them around the organizations that are most likely to do that.

00;09;21;24 - 00;09;45;03
Brian Kaskie
Folks who have the individual experience of aging, folks who've taken a class in aging, who have a gerontology degree, or have had a personal experience that makes this very salient to them. So all their caregiving is familiar to folks. They're going to be more likely to advance a policy for that. So you all in the aging network play a critical role finding people in other organizations.

00;09;45;03 - 00;09;51;29
Brian Kaskie
Who's that aging person who's going to understand what we're talking about? Then that person will come to your driver.

00;09;52;01 - 00;10;05;19
Gretchen Knowlton
Okay. Good. So what are some of the challenges and barriers that you see showing up in the workplace? I'll start with you Jeri. What do you say when it comes to age or stage of life.

00;10;05;19 - 00;10;15;22
Jeri Colucy
I really think that one is the actual person is their own enemy in the whole situation, because a lot of them are just fearful to apply, right?

00;10;15;22 - 00;10;20;15
Gretchen Knowlton
They've been rejected so many times. They've had a hard time, like Marla’s story,

00;10;20;17 - 00;10;42;21
Jeri Colucy
and they know they're more than qualified. But yet there is no one. I mean, they don't know where to turn. And so they have to just like kind of look for clues. And so I address those clues to that particular thing by always putting it in our job posting that we are open to retirees or veterans or older persons.

00;10;42;21 - 00;10;58;01
Brian Kaskie
The pledge is important because, again, when you're searching and you don't see that and you've been a person who've thrown in 50 applications and already you're going to start to wonder, am I too old? But if you see that big sign that says, hey, we're an age friendly employer.

00;10;58;04 - 00;10;59;26
Gretchen Knowlton
What is what's this big sign? What’s the pledge?

00;10;59;26 - 00;11;00;17
Gretchen Knowlton


00;11;01;13 - 00;11;23;22
Brian Kaskie
It's what we saw. It's a it's like a certificate you can put on all your job announcements. And the other great thing about the pledge is once you join you get access to all the resources that AARP can offer in this space. See it. Other challenges. There's a lot of information out there. There's a lot of people talking about the aging workforce, but what do you do?

00;11;23;22 - 00;11;28;10
Brian Kaskie
How do I go about doing something with it? So we always we always start with them.

00;11;28;14 - 00;11;36;01
Gretchen Knowlton
The AARP pledge. So you can sign up for that online. I was we can put that in our show notes and people are interested in finding out more about that.

00;11;36;01 - 00;12;06;12
Marla Fronczak
Can they review your website? They look at your, you know, how you are marketing your your posts and things like that. So they give you a lot of practical tips. And there's also AARP is a place where people look, yes, for, employment opportunities. So it's again that, you know, so all of our age guide, signatures, we have the AARP pledge on our, you know, so when people are getting emails from us or looking at our website, you know, they're there knowing that you're an age friendly organization.

00;12;06;15 - 00;12;10;01
Gretchen Knowlton
It's really good to have that right out there front and center for people.

00;12;10;01 - 00;12;25;05
Jeri Colucy
And it's a simple thing. It is a very simple thing to do. And I think that as, you know, thought leaders in this particular space, I think that we need to just encourage other employers outside of the aging network to actually consider that as well.

00;12;25;08 - 00;12;48;18
Gretchen Knowlton
Right. We have to start spreading this far and wide. But really, if the area agencies on aging aren't doing this and setting an example, it's going to be hard to try to talk other people into it. But if we can lead by example and people see what a strong workforce we have and is very vibrant and engaged and diverse in terms of age and everything else, then other people will see that and get on board, hopefully.

00;12;48;20 - 00;13;11;00
Gretchen Knowlton
Good. So, so you talked a little bit about some strategies for dealing with these challenges is what else? What would an age friendly or stage friendly workplace look like? And what else is the value of it? What is the value of it to the workplace besides just the value to an older worker? They want to find a job.

00;13;11;00 - 00;13;16;10
Gretchen Knowlton
They're really happy that there's a place for them. What's the value to the employer and and what could that look like?

00;13;16;15 - 00;13;33;24
Jeri Colucy
I think expertise is one big thing that we have to consider is that a lot of, older adults reentering the job force, they have expertise that they have built over a lifetime career, and so they can bring those things into the workplace.

00;13;33;26 - 00;14;03;09
Jeri Colucy
The benefit to the employer is also, most of the time, these employees do not need benefits. And that's quite a cost savings to the employer if they are hitting some budgetary, restrictions. And then I think the other thing is just the culture, the culture that an older adult can bring into, with younger people, you can match them up and they can learn so much from one another, and they can bake cookies.

00;14;03;11 - 00;14;05;19
Jeri Colucy


00;14;05;21 - 00;14;53;12
Brian Kaskie
The two words I use in this space are recruitment and retention. So an aging workforce, a lot of organizations, especially in our field of aging services, rely on a model where we go out and look for recent graduates or even high school students to fill positions in this demographic phenomenon. If we haven't learned anything, it's it's they're not there anymore. They're just not available like they used to be. And having the recruitment, the age friendly means you're willing to dice up jobs from full time to part time. You're willing to go and put your signs and recruitment ads in different places than normal. So h friendly recruitment helps you solve your labor force challenges. The retention part of it is everything that was just mentioned.

00;14;53;12 - 00;15;17;23
Brian Kaskie
You keep folks engaged longer. They're bringing value to your firm. They transfer knowledge to younger employees. They are good employees you want to keep around, and a lot of times they're willing to move from full time to part time work. But you have to initiate that. You as an employer have to talk to them about it. And this gets to the last point is, is the fear of, age discrimination.

00;15;17;23 - 00;15;37;10
Brian Kaskie
There is a bias out there. A lot of employers are hesitant to even go into the space because they think for some reason they're going to be accused of discriminating based on age. And and our job is to disabuse them of that and say, no, it's not. It's healthy for you to talk about their plans. It's like you would for younger employees.

00;15;37;10 - 00;15;39;28
Brian Kaskie
What do you want to do with your your career?

00;15;40;00 - 00;15;41;12
Gretchen Knowlton
How can we make this job work?

00;15;41;12 - 00;15;49;17
Brian Kaskie
Right? How can we make this? You know, you're a valued employee.

00;15;44;20 - 00;15;49;19
Jeri Colucy
How can we help you phase into retirement. That's the popular term that we're hearing more and more.

00;15;49;19 - 00;16;09;05
Brian Kaskie
Right. How can instead of you just telling me one day you want to retire because you talk to all your friends about it and they say it's great and they don't know if it's Wednesday or Friday or whatever. You don't want to drop that on your employer. Your employer wants to know if you're a good employee, you know, if you have a plan. And so this is huge for retirement.

00;16;09;05 - 00;16;31;17
Marla Fronczak
You lose a lot of organizational knowledge that way. So if you're able to transition people through a part time position, they can mentor other people into that. You really don't lose that organizational and expertise that that they've gained over that time. So that's what we've seen is giving yourself enough time to make sure that and it's healthy for your organization that way.

00;16;31;17 - 00;16;39;15
Marla Fronczak
Like you said, you know, like Brian was saying, you know, if somebody tells you I'm leaving in a month, that's that's a big hole to fill. You know?

00;16;39;18 - 00;16;51;12
Gretchen Knowlton
Yeah. So how do you change the culture and make it clear to your workers that, you know, if you're thinking about retiring, come talk to me, because we might be able to work something out. I mean, is that what you do or.

00;16;51;14 - 00;17;11;15
Brian Kaskie
Well, we found one groups. A lot larger firms will do yearly surveys of their employees. Right. Just your routine engagement and and you're all just asking questions. Hey, hey, I recognize I looked at our data and guess what? You all found out you have some older employees. So what can we do?

00;17;11;15 - 00;17;15;14
Gretchen Knowlton
From where do you plan to be in five years? And all of you plan to be retired?

00;17;15;16 - 00;17;47;09
Brian Kaskie
We find that that sort of initial surveillance to find out because we've had one person, she was younger, 30 ish, came to one of our seminars and she went back and looked at her file and realized, boy, that one guy thought it was 48 is actually 62. And it really it really got her thinking more seriously about saying, okay, I should start talking to these folks and and not dropping on them some policy somebody told me about from 30 years ago.

00;17;47;12 - 00;17;49;20
Brian Kaskie
But talking to them and finding out what they want.

00;17;49;23 - 00;17;56;26
Gretchen Knowlton
Right. But it's really about talking to all of them equally and not just targeting those who are getting close to retirement age, but letting everybody know we

00;17;56;28 - 00;17;59;10
Brian Kaskie
This is the kind of workplace we have

00;17;59;10 - 00;18;03;10
Gretchen Knowlton
Right? Yeah. If you're caregiving for one phase of your life, or

00;18;03;10 - 00;18;21;27
Jeri Colucy
one of the things that I think is really, really important, and Brian and I have talked about this quite a bit, is changing the narrative within the workplace really, really having those open conversations rather than you coming to me and saying, as your H.R. Director, I'm going to retire, what do I do?

00;18;22;05 - 00;18;42;07
Jeri Colucy
You know, it's like, but I'd really like to go part time, right? You know, so can you help me figure that out? I think that we just really have to have some more open conversations about what phasing retirement is, and some non-financial retirement. Coaching is really, really key.

00;18;42;12 - 00;19;07;02
Brian Kaskie
That's another good point, because the more the work a lot of workers don't realize. Unfortunately, until they're maybe a few years from retirement that they haven't saved enough. And what would be beneficial at that point is for you all to say, I'm not trying to push anything on you, but here's a link to a website that can help you learn more about what you're going to need in retirement.

00;19;07;02 - 00;19;11;08
Brian Kaskie
And maybe that gets them to come to you and say, hey, let's talk about this.

00;19;11;08 - 00;19;35;27
Marla Fronczak
I think that does open the door. I think even just those financial, you know, and we do that once a year when we look at, you know, our, our 41K and we had those discussions with, you know people on, you know, what does this look like for you at this time. And you know what have we seen the demographics like two and five baby boomers don't have any savings like for re for retirement.

00;19;35;27 - 00;19;51;23
Marla Fronczak
And so like you said that you keep thinking you're going to have that next ten years or I got 20 years, I've got time. I got to get my kids through college or let me put off my retirement savings for other issues. And then. Yeah, and then the air boat.

00;19;51;29 - 00;19;53;21
Brian Kaskie
I tried to convince my wife.

00;19;53;22 - 00;19;56;25
Gretchen Knowlton
Motorcycle.

00;19;54;27 - 00;19;56;25
Brian Kaskie
Yeah, how about a boat?

00;19;57;19 - 00;20;00;19
Gretchen Knowlton
it's hard to think about that long term. No.

00;20;00;20 - 00;20;03;10
Marla Fronczak
You always think there's more time to. Catch up,

00;20;03;17 - 00;20;27;06
Jeri Colucy
but I do I do think that like we have started that at AgeGuide where we have that annual conversation, but I think we even need to go maybe one step further where we're saying, okay, how are you saving for, you know, just asking the question, are you saving enough for the future? And are you thinking about what your retirement strategy might be?

00;20;27;09 - 00;20;46;09
Jeri Colucy
We have. Hey, I didn't really realize that we had. 33% of our current employees are over the age of 55, and so that's a third of our work staff. So how are we preparing them and how are we preparing our our agency?

00;20;46;09 - 00;20;56;02
Gretchen Knowlton
Right. And it needs to start younger anyway. So those conversations are useful for everyone, right. Because we know if you start saving earlier, you end up with more in your retirement.

00;20;56;02 - 00;21;12;12
Marla Fronczak
And I think too, and Gretchen, you know we've we've looked at a lot of what is life span look like. And not everything is like you start working at this age and you end working at this age. So there are people that want to take time off, go in and out, go in and out of the workforce.

00;21;12;12 - 00;21;27;23
Marla Fronczak
Right. So that's why we know that you are going to have people that are older, that are going to look for positions at different times and different spaces. Maybe they wanted to be home with their kids for ten years, or maybe they wanted to take care of grand kids for five years, and then they want to enter back in.

00;21;27;23 - 00;21;48;06
Marla Fronczak
Or maybe they've had caregiving issues and they've had to step out of the workforce. So that life span is not like 18 to 65 any longer. Like that life span looks very, very different for people, and we should start looking at it that way. And I think in even in what we were talking about, people going back to school and looking for different opportunities.

00;21;48;06 - 00;22;10;24
Marla Fronczak
So now what do I want to do now? I've worked in this field for 40 years, but I've always wanted to do this. And so how do I transition into that now. Right. And and not face bias. Because now I want to do something that doesn't maybe have my expertise, but it's something I want to do and I want to pursue and want to have the opportunity to do that.

00;22;10;26 - 00;22;44;00
Brian Kaskie
Just add a little pepper here. There's another constructor, a project we worked out a long time ago called The Reluctant Retiree. So just as much as this is gonna be a benefit both to your organization in terms of keeping employees around longer than maybe they need expect, this also gets people who you know. Otherwise, if they don't have a plan, they're going to stay around and they're going to keep making those benefits as long as they can, because that's just how their pension payouts work or however it's structured.

00;22;44;03 - 00;23;02;20
Brian Kaskie
And it becomes really challenging in that workplace, because not only are they not maybe as productive as they used to be, but the younger people who come into the job are seen that as a sort of an end point in their career. Like, they're just punching the clock now.

00;23;02;23 - 00;23;09;17
Marla Fronczak
Or not giving them the opportunity. Right? They're like these people. I'm never going to have that opportunity to move up because they're not leaving.

00;23;09;17 - 00;23;09;24
Gretchen Knowlton
Right?

00;23;09;24 - 00;23;16;02
Brian Kaskie
Well, this all started with me coming in to my role and seeing a professor who had tenure. And I go.

00;23;16;04 - 00;23;18;01
Gretchen Knowlton
Oh yeah, those tenured professors.

00;23;18;01 - 00;23;32;19
Jeri Colucy
And he's still teaching the same stuff. And some professors. Yeah. And you're maybe it's time and other professors, you're like, they should teach forever. And we just never talked about that.

00;23;32;20 - 00;23;36;02
Marla Fronczak
But I think it is conversation. I think it's more like.

00;23;36;06 - 00;23;37;06
Brian Kaskie
Talking about it.

00;23;37;06 - 00;23;42;14
Marla Fronczak
I think it's being open to.

00;23;39;10 - 00;23;42;17
Gretchen Knowlton
Through your career, through your career, it's conversation.

00;23;42;17 - 00;24;01;11
Marla Fronczak
So that's culture that's really building that culture in your organization. Because again, you know, there are people that will transition in and out of your organizations. And so giving them the ability to thrive in whatever, you know, season they're in. I think all organizations can benefit from that.

00;24;01;14 - 00;24;22;08
Gretchen Knowlton
Definitely. Yes. And you mentioned changing the narrative, and that's something we've talked a lot about a lot on this podcast, because we're talking about ageism and it's about changing the way we think about it. And it sounds like this is a narrative change that needs to kind of happen across the board in our workplaces. From the time you graduate college, you get your first job.

00;24;22;08 - 00;24;37;01
Gretchen Knowlton
If you were having these conversations and thinking and planning and your employer was willing to talk about this stuff, by the time you get to the stage of needing to make some of these and of career decisions, you'd be really prepared to do that. And so that's a really

00;24;37;03 - 00;24;44;16
Jeri Colucy
and well, and we're going to have to have more and more conversations of what that looks like because of this shortage of workforce.

00;24;44;18 - 00;25;07;14
Jeri Colucy
Yeah. Backfilling is that, you know, if someone needs to take a leave that might be longer than a maternity leave, or they might need to take a leave because of a caregiving or where I want to have the opportunity to bring that person back in if at a later point in time. And I think oftentimes those bridges are are broken and you don't have that.

00;25;07;14 - 00;25;10;13
Jeri Colucy
And so we're going to have to just really change what that looks like.

00;25;10;20 - 00;25;16;12
Gretchen Knowlton
Yes. Because that costs a lot every time somebody leaves. And if you cannot lose that experience.

00;25;16;19 - 00;25;45;02
Brian Kaskie
You know, you're new and younger employees coming from the University of Iowa and other fine universities across the country should have heard that they're going to have to work a lot longer than their parents did just because of the changes in life expectancy. So they're coming in with that notion of, okay, I'm going to need to have a longer career, but it doesn't have to be with one firm.

00;25;45;02 - 00;25;46;23
Brian Kaskie
And then I quit. It could be me.

00;25;46;23 - 00;26;01;11
Marla Fronczak
And it doesn't have to be 40 years consecutive either. Do you know what I mean? So is that what do you got? I can take our five years here. I can, you know what I mean? So it's it's just really looking at it very differently. If you're looking at that longevity span.

00;26;01;13 - 00;26;27;16
Gretchen Knowlton
Yes. Yeah. Right. Your career is going to look differently these days. And valuing the wisdom that these older workers bring. I've heard both of all three of you talk about that. It's not just, that we want to keep retain people because it's expensive to replace people or, you know, you want to give people job satisfaction, but they after you have a lot of work experience, they bring so much to the table.

00;26;27;16 - 00;26;48;24
Gretchen Knowlton
And that wisdom is one of the benefits of our aging population, I think, is that as a society, we need to learn how to tap into that resource and utilize that wisdom that's out there in this growing population. So it's not a negative thing that we have such a large, over 60 population. It's really a positive. But how do we take advantage of that and how do we use it?

00;26;48;27 - 00;27;02;09
Marla Fronczak
And I think having those diverse voices at your in session as well too. So learning from someone younger, mentoring someone you know and just you both gain right from all of those conversations and a resource, right?

00;27;02;09 - 00;27;20;15
Gretchen Knowlton
Yeah. So this has been a great conversation. Before we wrap up here, I'd love to hear from each of you. What, you know, what would your dream be for tomorrow? If you could see workplaces change, what would you want them to look like, Marla?

00;27;20;22 - 00;27;45;21
Marla Fronczak
So I would just say be open and and really look at people as people. Okay? So everybody has a role to bring to an organization, and everybody has different times in their life when they can contribute to an organization. So really not I, as we've all talked about with this podcast, you know, younger people face ageism just the same way older people face ageism.

00;27;45;24 - 00;28;06;19
Marla Fronczak
So really exploring the opportunities of how we can bring the generations together and have those opportunities to really look at what's the lifespan of your organization, where am I going to need my workforce to be? And so how do I direct it that way? And so making sure that we're not only bringing in older talent, we're bringing in younger talent.

00;28;06;19 - 00;28;12;14
Marla Fronczak
We're we're we're just meeting the needs of our people. I think they'll thrive as long as we're all doing that, we'll.

00;28;12;14 - 00;28;19;01
Gretchen Knowlton
Have a diverse world to live in, which will be a wonderful thing. Yeah. Okay. What's your dream for the future? Right.

00;28;19;04 - 00;28;43;18
Brian Kaskie
It's more, the, brisk, hard reality is I don't know how we're going to get around this. I mean, it's just something. We have to wake up, stop dreaming, and realize that this is an aging society, and employers are big social organizations, and they play a huge role. Look at what they've done for introducing women to the workplace.

00;28;43;18 - 00;29;11;18
Brian Kaskie
I mean, when in the 70s, you know, I look at schools and programs, it's mostly men in a lot of positions that are being led by men. And last several decades. Yeah. You all persisted. You didn't go away and you kept coming and kept coming and employers changed. And the ones who thrived responded to it. They adapt. They said, you know, it's not a bad thing to have women in the workplace.

00;29;11;18 - 00;29;20;01
Brian Kaskie
And I think you're about to see the same thing here. These folks are going to keep coming. Yeah. And the employers who recognize and respond are going to do much, but they're.

00;29;20;01 - 00;29;24;26
Gretchen Knowlton
The ones that are going to thrive. Right. What's your dream, Jeri?

00;29;24;29 - 00;30;19;17
Jeri Colucy
Well, I think my dream is that as we look at just Illinois and saying, okay, 1 in 8 employees is over the age of 65 and soon it will be one, you know, one of five, and we're really going to have that shortage. I just really want employers today to take one step towards making their companies, making their agencies, making their workplaces more age or stage friendly, because, you know, we have more, you know, single parents out there that, you know, people need work. We have caregivers that they need, the social portion of work, as well as their, taking care of, their parents or their children. I just think that if we could just get employers to take one step toward.

00;30;19;23 - 00;30;42;17
Gretchen Knowlton
and just one step to start out with, that's a good challenge. That's a really good wrap up for for our listeners to think about one thing that they heard here that they can do to make even a small change and and try to, you know, keep challenging those assumptions about age and embrace the wisdom and create a world for all ages.

00;30;42;20 - 00;30;53;20
Gretchen Knowlton
So thank you all for joining us today. This was a great conversation, and thank you to our listeners, and we challenge you to go out there and challenge assumptions.

00;30;53;23 - 00;30;55;29
Brian Kaskie
Thank you.

00;30;56;02 - 00;31;16;20
Narrator
And now for something special, instead of our usual Medicare Minute, we're bringing you a special Medicaid minute featuring Lori Baker, a valued member of Age Guides Advisory Board and CEO of aid to break down the latest Medicaid news. You heard that right. A.I.D. talking Medicaid.

00;31;16;25 - 00;31;28;10
Gretchen Knowlton
Hello. Today we are here with Lore Baker, CEO of the Association for Individual Development. We're so happy that you could join us today to talk about Medicaid.

00;31;28;12 - 00;31;29;28
Lore Baker
Thanks for having me.

00;31;30;01 - 00;31;33;29
Gretchen Knowlton
First, could you tell us a little bit about what A.ID. does?

00;31;33;29 - 00;31;41;16
Lore Baker
Sure, A.I.D. stands for The Association for Individual Development, and we provide services in kind of four main areas.

00;31;41;23 - 00;32;20;25
Lore Baker
One is for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities. We do services and supports that help people live, work, love and recreate in their community. We also do services for people with a mental health diagnosis. We do everything from traditional therapy to street outreach for people experiencing homelessness. And then we do crisis care services. Then we do employment services for people with disabilities across the spectrum of disability, and work with people in order to help them obtain jobs and maintain those jobs after they get them.

00;32;20;28 - 00;32;40;22
Gretchen Knowlton
Great. Lots of work going on there. And I assume that many of the people that you serve rely on Medicaid not just for essential health care, but for long term supports that make independent living possible. Can you give us kind of a quick overview of how on Medicaid works for the folks that you work with?

00;32;40;23 - 00;33;35;14
Lore Baker
Yeah. That's correct. About 80% of our budget is made up of Medicaid services that are billed to the state of Illinois. And shared, service payment between the federal government and the state of Illinois at 50/50 match, if you will. And what that does for people with disabilities, in particular people with intellectual and developmental disabilities receive Medicaid waiver services, and they receive services that help them stay living in the community safely and securely with the supports that they need, instead of living in long term care facilities, which costs us a lot more money and are also a lot more restrictive, and people are unable to do many of the things that they would like to do if they are forced to live in a skilled nursing facility, let's say.

00;33;35;16 - 00;33;45;26
Gretchen Knowlton
So Medicaid is really saving the state money and the federal government money. Because people are not having to go live in facilities. They're able to live in the communities.

00;33;45;27 - 00;33;46;10
Lore Baker
That's right.

00;33;46;10 - 00;33;46;22
Gretchen Knowlton
Important.

00;33;46;26 - 00;34;07;15
Lore Baker
That's correct. That's incredibly important to remember because those skilled nursing facilities are a right. And so if somebody is eligible for one, they have to be allowed to move into one. And we have to pay for that service. And it's much more expensive than supporting someone living in their community of choice.

00;34;07;17 - 00;34;23;13
Gretchen Knowlton
So we're talking about this at an interesting time, because we just passed a federal bill that makes 100 or $1 trillion in cuts, to the Medicaid program. Can you talk a little bit about what that's going to mean?

00;34;23;15 - 00;34;54;13
Lore Baker
Yeah. So the Big Beautiful Bill was recently signed into law, and that does cut about 20% of the Medicaid budget overall, over a ten year period. This law will be of less harm to the aging and disability community than the original proposals were that proposed to cut about $3 trillion out of the Medicaid budget. So there is a glimmer of good news in there.

00;34;54;20 - 00;35;26;24
Lore Baker
But where it can really affect people is that ACA population, the Affordable Care Act population of people who haven't had insurance and now, will likely lose that insurance again. And we have found over time that there are many caretakers who have been able to access insurance for the first time while they are caring for an aging loved one or a loved one with a disability and are unable to work because of that caretaking that they are doing and therefore unable to access insurance.

00;35;26;24 - 00;35;56;17
Lore Baker
And so this will make their lives more difficult. Again, it will make it harder for them to continue to care for their loved ones and will throw a big wrench in the way that has worked for their families in order to support people who are aging and those with disabilities. So it could mean that those folks have to go back to work and then place their loved one into a skilled nursing facility or a more costly care location.

00;35;56;19 - 00;36;03;20
Lore Baker
That is not where those people want to be, and not where the family members want them to be either.

00;36;03;22 - 00;36;15;08
Gretchen Knowlton
We really need to support those caregivers, and Medicaid is a way that we do that. What can people do if they're concerned about the changes with the legislation that just passed?

00;36;15;10 - 00;36;42;26
Lore Baker
Right. So this isn't the end of the fight. There's lots of fights ongoing that we all need to continue to advocate for. And it was very important the advocacy that happened over the past few months, because that did lessen the harm that was done, even though there's a significant amount of harm in the so-called Big Beautiful Bill. But this fight will continue, so you need to continue to raise your voices as these cuts roll out over time.

00;36;42;28 - 00;37;13;24
Lore Baker
People need to be reminded that this is the implementation of the choices made by our elected officials, in this bill that directly result in the cuts that are going to be coming down the road, and not necessarily first thing when this bill, first goes into effect. So, we need to remember to raise our voices to our elected officials, encourage our friends and loved ones and other states, to be able to lift their voices to their elected officials.

00;37;13;24 - 00;37;47;29
Lore Baker
So talk about what these cuts. And this is just one cut out of, lots of cuts that are in the big, beautiful bill that we're going to adversely affect to the aging and disability community. So advocacy continues to be incredibly important. People should not be downhearted or upset. They should take a moment, relax, you know, kind of get their feet back under them and then look at how do I continue to fight this advocacy fight, because it's important to me, my family, my community and to the United States.

00;37;48;01 - 00;37;52;08
Gretchen Knowlton
The fight continues. Thank you so much for sharing that with us today.

00;37;52;11 - 00;37;57;02
Lore Baker
Thanks for having me. I really appreciate AgeGuide.

00;37;57;05 - 00;38;16;19
Gretchen Knowlton
Thank you for listening to The Age Guide: Perspectives on the Aging Journey. AgeGuide coordinates and administers many services for older adults in Northeastern Illinois. Our specially trained professionals are available to answer questions and connect you with local service providers and resources.

00;38;16;21 - 00;38;39;16
Gretchen Knowlton
If you are interested in these services or want to learn more, go to our website at Ageguide.org or call our offices at (630) 293-5990. Please follow our podcasts. You can be notified in your streaming account. Thank you and we will see you next time on The Age Guide Podcast.